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Post by atlex on Jul 12, 2022 20:48:34 GMT
Wisdom!  |
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Post by wannabe on Jul 13, 2022 15:42:47 GMT
I'm still struggling deciding which way to go on mine, I think one of the big issues being is the oem rubber on a more "road based" car the twist and flex in the rubber is actually part of the suspension, without it you lose the "travel" as it were over road imperfections and bumps. The second issue is movement, cheap poly bushings and even good ones are flawed when it comes to great, superpro do a good job but most will squeak and at worst bind meaning you control arms will take the load (and eventually break). I'd almost decided on superpro at one point but I'm still not convinced I'd be happy with them, and they are not maintenance free either. There is a pillow bush kit from a company in Japan you can get on RHD but they are £1200 + taxes + shipping for a full kit (ouch). I think I'll probably end up on Ilmotorsport rubber bushings the max5's use due to the cost of OEM, but I'll have to live with the worry of potentially having to re-do them if they don't last... hmmm. FWIW I really like my full Superpro setup that I had fitted when I had the suspension refresh done - the feel through the de-powered rack is very 'granular', if that's the word, and you can feel subtle changes in surface texture because (presumably) they transmit more vibration etc. to the suspension/shell. They are a bit wince-inducing on sharp-edged potholes, of course, but then that's one more reason for sticking with 14s or 15s with a decent sidewall... As for maintenance of them... I've not done anything to them since fitting a few years ago now (!)  so hopefully I'm not going to snap a suspension arm when fully committed at motorway speeds...  lol |
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Post by Zed. on Jul 13, 2022 18:05:18 GMT
hopefully I'm not going to snap a suspension arm when fully committed at motorway speeds... ~half way down page...  for those of us that are too lazybusy to look, heres the photo from that article ^^Sorta why I'm not messing with ~30 year old rusted suspension  Rich. |
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Post by batou on Jul 14, 2022 9:18:47 GMT
There is a pillow bush kit from a company in Japan you can get on RHD but they are £1200 + taxes + shipping for a full kit (ouch). More um.. info on this ? Heres their webpage: www.biot.co.jp/products/asse/sus/parts/pbs/And the link on RHD, again, too strong money for what they are really but unless your a savvy engineer like Zed. then there are not many options. www.rhdjapan.com/biot-suspension-pillow-bush-series-full-kit-na6ce-nb8c.htmlI'm still struggling deciding which way to go on mine, I think one of the big issues being is the oem rubber on a more "road based" car the twist and flex in the rubber is actually part of the suspension, without it you lose the "travel" as it were over road imperfections and bumps. The second issue is movement, cheap poly bushings and even good ones are flawed when it comes to great, superpro do a good job but most will squeak and at worst bind meaning you control arms will take the load (and eventually break). I'd almost decided on superpro at one point but I'm still not convinced I'd be happy with them, and they are not maintenance free either. There is a pillow bush kit from a company in Japan you can get on RHD but they are £1200 + taxes + shipping for a full kit (ouch). I think I'll probably end up on Ilmotorsport rubber bushings the max5's use due to the cost of OEM, but I'll have to live with the worry of potentially having to re-do them if they don't last... hmmm. I'm no fan of polywatsit bushings - seen too many failures and think they're a fad for the masses (but usually easier to fit compared to oem types). standard Mazda bushes are designed as part of the suspension - to the extent that the rear suspension geometry alters under breaking to 'toe-in'  as to the 'pillow bush' setup, theres a company in the USA making / fitting kits to wishbones (but less Scene-points for atlex  ) these are cheap, have a 12mm 'bore' so good for lower / inner wishbone - subframe but will need a larger tube welded into the arm to fit... more bodges to follow  Rich. Yep, I'm of a similar mindset, the reason I considered superpro briefly is the ease of fitting, I don't have a press. But I have found a friendly garage who I did some work on the Subaru recently (and didn't complaint about it too much lol) that would probably help me out. I set my rears when theu were aligned to still slightly toe in, but not as much as factory, so you get sharper turn in and rotation but it stabilises nicely as it compresses, I guess amongst other things, this is partially due to the bushes deflectng and adding more toe-in. I guess poly would give you a constant toe that you want which is probably better for a race car but with the binding issues and stress you'd put through the arms hammering through kerbs I'm not convinced on that front either (hence the pillow ball suggestion). You not had the ilmotorsport bushes under consideration at all then? I'm still struggling deciding which way to go on mine, I think one of the big issues being is the oem rubber on a more "road based" car the twist and flex in the rubber is actually part of the suspension, without it you lose the "travel" as it were over road imperfections and bumps. The second issue is movement, cheap poly bushings and even good ones are flawed when it comes to great, superpro do a good job but most will squeak and at worst bind meaning you control arms will take the load (and eventually break). I'd almost decided on superpro at one point but I'm still not convinced I'd be happy with them, and they are not maintenance free either. There is a pillow bush kit from a company in Japan you can get on RHD but they are £1200 + taxes + shipping for a full kit (ouch). I think I'll probably end up on Ilmotorsport rubber bushings the max5's use due to the cost of OEM, but I'll have to live with the worry of potentially having to re-do them if they don't last... hmmm. FWIW I really like my full Superpro setup that I had fitted when I had the suspension refresh done - the feel through the de-powered rack is very 'granular', if that's the word, and you can feel subtle changes in surface texture because (presumably) they transmit more vibration etc. to the suspension/shell. They are a bit wince-inducing on sharp-edged potholes, of course, but then that's one more reason for sticking with 14s or 15s with a decent sidewall... As for maintenance of them... I've not done anything to them since fitting a few years ago now (!) so hopefully I'm not going to snap a suspension arm when fully committed at motorway speeds... lol I have plenty of road texture "feel" with 9kg springs up front and stiffer engine mounts, don't really want to add poly into the mix. It tends to add a lot of extra "noise" to the steering, some of which you don't need and can distract from what you want to feel from the tyres. More is not always better. Superpro have knurling that supposedly retains grease better and many have used them for years without issues, personally I wouldn't be happy unless I fitted them to new or freshely reconditioned and painted arms with grease nipples the arms so I could regrease every season for peace of mind but thats a bit ott. They will no doubt end up binding to some slight degree over time but not to the point where they are rusted and fused in place. Some cheaper poly bushes (non superpro) have an issue due to the size and poor fit so the sides of the bushing catch on the subframe mounts and the grease is gradually lost effectively locking them into place. I think superpro have a better manufacturing tolerances than others and I believe they engineered this issue out. Just keep an ear out for squeaks. I had them on my previous, mostly track only car and one thing I also learnt is mixing different bushings (ie poly in some places and rubber in others) throughout the car is not ideal. Really, if you go poly in a few places you really should do the rest of the car (ie. if you do poly engine mounts you need to do gearbox and diff mounts too) to ensure consistent stresses throughout these points as you move the vibration movement that was at that mount point elsewhere. hopefully I'm not going to snap a suspension arm when fully committed at motorway speeds... ~half way down page... for those of us that are too lazybusy to look, heres the photo from that article ^^Sorta why I'm not messing with ~30 year old rusted suspension Rich. Slightly more heart attack inducing images....   |
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Post by atlex on Jul 14, 2022 9:34:24 GMT
Zed, get in the business of producing some modified ones :-)
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Post by howardb66 on Jul 14, 2022 15:37:15 GMT
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Post by batou on Jul 14, 2022 16:56:01 GMT
Yup, thats the ones I was reffering to, made by IL motosport for the Max5 racing series. Probably what I'll go with. |
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Post by lowender on Jul 14, 2022 17:36:20 GMT
I've had these on mine for the last 5 years, they've been great, I don't feel the need for polybushes. |
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Post by Zed. on Jul 14, 2022 17:42:01 GMT
Yup, thats the ones I was reffering to, made by IL motosport for the Max5 racing series. OWF UCKINMUCH?  £376.42.... so average of £17.11 each.... not too bad in that respect if they are good bushes.... Supermiata in California sell a hybrid poly / bronze bushing that has good road & competition reviews for similar money  supermiata.com/Supermiata-863-Bronze-Bushing-Kit-90-05-MX5.aspx$422.00 so ~£360 + post..... some interesting things to read on their website (and also on US based forums  ) must confess that I'm tempted  but then I'm easily distracted |
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Post by Zed. on Jul 14, 2022 18:01:34 GMT
You not had the ilmotorsport bushes under consideration at all then? I have considered but as this thread origonally started - making my own mess Slightly more heart attack inducing images.... rear upper mk1 / mk2.... both look to have snapped in the same sorta place, maybe the bushing is too tight and the weak-point (hole drilled / punched in wishbone) after the lower brace has failed? I've seen this sort of thing on the internot - sorta why I'm buying new wishbones (but maybe making my own lower rear to save wieght & money??). must confess that I've been influenced after de-rusing several pairs of ~30 year old & younger wishbones to find thin & dubious looking metal ^^ Sandblasting made things look worse Rich. |
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Post by Zed. on Jul 14, 2022 21:02:22 GMT
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Post by atlex on Jul 14, 2022 21:37:31 GMT
2 Grand for those bushings, are they made of titanium with gold leaf ? |
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Post by dickie on Jul 15, 2022 17:33:25 GMT
I am running complete IL motorsport bushings including diff void fillers
I bought direct from Germany !!!!
They are great for a dual use car.
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Post by howardb66 on Sept 1, 2022 10:31:08 GMT
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Post by batou on Sept 23, 2022 19:49:18 GMT
So all these scary pictures of broken control arms has been on my mind lol, I've been planning on doing a nut and bolt refurb of the arms and new bushes for a while. I've decided to order the IL Motorsport Rubber bushes (full set) but due to space/time/cost I'm doing the front end first and do the rears later when I have more space/time. In regards to the control arms I'll keep the rears and refurb them when I get round to that end, on fronts I've decided on a different route... having gone back and forth a few times I've decided to order both the upper and lower adjustable front control arms from Destroyordie, I really think having camber adjustment independant of toe and caster as well as overall track width adjustment options massively useful. That way I can dial in as much caster as I wanted as well as the perfect amount of front camber and wheel fitment for those jdmbro wheels . The next thing on my mind is hubs/knuckles, obviously I'll be doing new lower ball joints (the uppers come with a ball joint) but I think it would make a lot of sense to change the wheel bearings given its now on 133k miles. The knuckles looks pretty Canoeen crusty so probably whip them off and clean them up but not sure what hubs/bearings to go with. Looks like there is no OE non abs hub and bearing (and holy moly they are £185 for abs ones), other options are autolink £30 jobs or some Timkens for £100 a side..... Thoughts? Ta |
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so hopefully I'm not going to snap a suspension arm when fully committed at motorway speeds... 
lol
)
)
?
le sigh
Jul 15, 2023 20:03:52 GMT
le sigh
Jul 15, 2023 20:03:52 GMT