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Post by swordspork on Dec 21, 2020 9:03:05 GMT
Sooo many Lego pieces available for these cars. I'm intrigued to find out more about this.
I always wondered about my diff as I'd heard (perhaps on another forum) that very early cars has 'smooth' diff casings. Mine most certainly has the finned type.
From reading and watching things on the car scene in Japan. The tendency is to pick the best options available when buying a car. So I think lots of the roadsters imported to the UK have all sorts of optional parts that little is now known about.
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 11:18:06 GMT
Sooo many Lego pieces available for these cars. I'm intrigued to find out more about this. I always wondered about my diff as I'd heard (perhaps on another forum) that very early cars has 'smooth' diff casings. Mine most certainly has the finned type. From reading and watching things on the car scene in Japan. The tendency is to pick the best options available when buying a car. So I think lots of the roadsters imported to the UK have all sorts of optional parts that little is now known about. Yeah its sounds that way, its an absolute rabbits hole, I've been reading a lot of information on Minkara.cariew.co.jp, its bascially a car blog website they use and there is tonnes of information on there but its hard to find as the translation doesn't always get what your searching for correct (for instance is mazdaspeed translatable and what if they use mazda comp etc, it sometimes comes up as "Matsuspi"). There are a lot of different options fitted, I've even seen some suggest that the SUZUKI SPORTS FF diff is compatible but who knows The following part numbers are for the 1.6 diff: 9N1A 79 960 Limited slip differential (1.5WAY) N1064A Limited slip differential (2WAY) I always tend to see the square shafts in posts regarding this diff though so that has been fairly consistent. I've found refrence to people overhauling them and different shafts appearing in the pictures so you need to review the text otherwise it gets confusing. For example, this guy dismantles one... Part I Part IIHe uses another casing which comes with the different sized the stub axle shafts, but uses the square ones with the overhauled mazdaspeed diff. VLSD casing and shafts: And the Mazdaspeed LSD dismantled, he states: " the Mazdaspeed mechanical LSD rescued from Brodef. Orthodox 4-pinion, 6-plate configuration on each side. I will use a TRD shim for this guy to get the initials up. It is a differential of the same standard as AW11"The TRD part numbers 40101-AW102 is a 0.2 shim, they also did a 40101-AW101 which is a 0.1 but both are discontinued now. When rebuilding it he also suggests.... "The backlash adjustment is adjusted by turning the adjustment screw, which is a big potato screw" (translation error? ) ...", on the left and right sides of the cap of the bearing folder. It's easy because you don't have to" - I guess he means it doesn't change it from what it was before and its preset. "replace the shims, assemble them, measure them, and then disassemble them and replace the shims. Built in at about 0.10 mm."
He then proceeds to reassemble the diff in the casing using the square shafts on the VLSD housing...
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Post by Zed. on Dec 21, 2020 11:41:29 GMT
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Post by Zed. on Dec 21, 2020 13:07:18 GMT
use a TRD shim for this guy to get the initials up. thats to tighten the clutch breaking torque by compressing the Belleville washer more for added spring pressure. as a guess that TRD shims were easily available but shim-stock steel or brass sheet is available in many thcknesses to cut your own to suit (what I do ) there are 2 clutch packs in this design of lsd so 2 Belleville washers to shim (although if they both are shimmed then it would need testing the breaking torque as could be very high!) as to the I'm guessing that's the internally castellated bearing adjusters that set bearing preload & shift the diff / crownwheel accross the pinion to set the mesh Rich.
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 13:45:00 GMT
I've come across a few of these too, the general consensus seems to be that nobody is 100% on anything until its stripped down . The regular open diff flanges are the same size left to right, where as you know the VLSD ones are different sizes, the information on my car is somewhat limited, I have everything from its UK history but as its an import but there is a little documentation other than the service books from japan and numerous stickers. When you look up the VIN information the advanced code suggests the factory spec as follows: " 2- DOOR.; DOHC; GASOLINE; 1600; MT; 5- SPEED; BILSTEIN DUMPER EXIST; 4- DISK; L.S. DIFF; A. LOCK BRAKE NOT EQUIPPED" so I knew it had some kind of LS Diff but assumed it would be a VLSD, even though I was never sure, then the square shaft saga started, and as we know they did not do square shafts for the VLSD. So either, the japanese owner swapped the diff out at somepoint, or it had the MS fitted as an option at the factory very early on maybe?. I was curious about how it behaves up in the air so just had the back end up and in neutral, with both wheels up you can feel a small amount of resistance when turning the wheel on one side (in a forward motion) slowly (with a small amount of force), at a constant speed the other wheel moves in the same direction (indicating an LSD) but the wheel moves slightly slower on the other side. If I turn it with more force both wheels turn the same direction at what looks like the same speed. Its funny this, as I've always had issues setting the rear parking brake as even when its wound completely undone I've always felt theres been some kind of friction lol. I can't really test breakaway torque (as I don't have a socket that fits the hubnut) but I think it will be very low at the moment given how worn out this diff will now be. use a TRD shim for this guy to get the initials up. thats to tighten the clutch breaking torque by compressing the Belleville washer more for added spring pressure. as a guess that TRD shims were easily available but shim-stock steel or brass sheet is available in many thcknesses to cut your own to suit (what I do ) there are 2 clutch packs in this design of lsd so 2 Belleville washers to shim (although if they both are shimmed then it would need testing the breaking torque as could be very high!) as to the I'm guessing that's the internally castellated bearing adjusters that set bearing preload & shift the diff / crownwheel accross the pinion to set the mesh Rich. Yep, that was my understanding, Maruhamotors suggest the following as a guide: "In addition to the stock of basic O / H kits for Mazda LSD, we also have additional shims that are not originally set.There is a setting for both NA6CE and all NA8C / NB cars, and the thickness is 0.1 mm.The maximum is 2 sheets (+ 0.2mm), but please understand that the stress applied to the casing increases as the thickness increases, so the risk increases accordingly.You can finish it with a crisp and crisp LSD."Yep that makes sense, just found the translation funny Also look here, the two part numbers for the Japan fit Mazdaspeed diffs are in this catalogue dated 1999 o : www.protegefaq.net/accessories/99mazdaspeed.pdfA few things are cleared up though, firstly I'm glad I didn't order a Cusco as I'd need to find VLSD stub shafts to fit it, and secondly if I do need to replace this diff at some point and its not salvageable then I can just get a Kaaz and use the shafts I have
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Post by dmbworks on Dec 21, 2020 13:51:26 GMT
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 13:57:26 GMT
Hi guys sorry for the delayed reply. I want to upload some images of a square flanged diff. Im new here whats the best way to get images uploaded? Cheers imgur.com/uploadOr create a flickr account
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Post by dmbworks on Dec 21, 2020 14:33:43 GMT
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 15:07:34 GMT
Oh prarrie canoe, well thats everything down the pan then, different handed square shafts on a VLSD?
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Post by swordspork on Dec 21, 2020 15:18:13 GMT
this is all quite confusing - but am I right in saying that there are upgrades out there for anyone that might want to retain their vlsd stubshafts/driveshafts/casing? Before reading this thread I pretty much thought if a vlsd were to drop its shopping (as they are known to do) the only option was getting a open diff or a torsen from a later car which would require changing all of the above parts.
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 15:34:07 GMT
this is all quite confusing - but am I right in saying that there are upgrades out there for anyone that might want to retain their vlsd stubshafts/driveshafts/casing? Before reading this thread I pretty much thought if a vlsd were to drop its shopping (as they are known to do) the only option was getting a open diff or a torsen from a later car which would require changing all of the above parts. Cusco RS/MZ for the 1.6 uses VLSD shafts, but Kaaz/Tomei require square/open shafts for example. So it depends, yes very confusing. Personally a torsen is never something I've asipired to fitting as they are all old and overpriced, but I would entertain the idea of a new clutch LSD in the 7" diff with a 4.3 (or lower ratio) if it was possible.
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Post by Zed. on Dec 21, 2020 15:53:28 GMT
Personally a torsen is never something I've asipired to fitting as they are all old and overpriced +1 I would entertain the idea of a new clutch LSD in the 7" diff with a 4.3 (or higher ratio) if it was possible. plenty of higher ratios available from Mx5 & Honda's S2000 like 4.1, 3.9 & 3.6:1 if you wanted lower ratio then Kia Sportage (mid 90's - ~2004?) or Kia Retona (anyone seen one? )FRONT diffs have 4.4, 4.6 & 4.778:1 ratio gears BUT nothing else id usable from them - rear diffs are larger! and theres supposedly 4.9, 5.1 & 5.3:1 out in the wild spmewhere... potentially, the B200 / Bongo & possibly Ford Ranger front diff could supply ratio's BUT I've yet to trip over one at the right price to investigate...... I've a 4.778:1 built up but really want the 5.1:1 so if Santa is reading....... Rich.
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Post by dmbworks on Dec 21, 2020 16:16:39 GMT
Yes mine certainly pisses on the chips with square flanges but different length shafts. I will be stripping it down further to confirm what it is. Hopefully not a vlsd but it looks like it.
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Post by batou on Dec 21, 2020 17:00:36 GMT
Personally a torsen is never something I've asipired to fitting as they are all old and overpriced +1 I would entertain the idea of a new clutch LSD in the 7" diff with a 4.3 (or higher ratio) if it was possible. plenty of higher ratios available from Mx5 & Honda's S2000 like 4.1, 3.9 & 3.6:1 if you wanted lower ratio then Kia Sportage (mid 90's - ~2004?) or Kia Retona (anyone seen one? )FRONT diffs have 4.4, 4.6 & 4.778:1 ratio gears BUT nothing else id usable from them - rear diffs are larger! and theres supposedly 4.9, 5.1 & 5.3:1 out in the wild spmewhere... potentially, the B200 / Bongo & possibly Ford Ranger front diff could supply ratio's BUT I've yet to trip over one at the right price to investigate...... I've a 4.778:1 built up but really want the 5.1:1 so if Santa is reading....... Rich. Haha, I meant lower! The option and the expensive end of the scale (if I ever need a new diff) would be a Maruhamotors 2WAY LSD and their 4.44 or 4.6 final drive in a 7" diff housing. But there are plenty of wild, and cheaper routes that may require some ebay trial and error to get to a similar end result, I guess it depends how much you want to invest in the 6" and it potential break leaving you to start over. Maruha do (or used to do) a 4.875 with their LSD for the NA6 and a 5.12 for the 7" NA8. Yes mine certainly pisses on the chips with square flanges but different length shafts. I will be stripping it down further to confirm what it is. Hopefully not a vlsd but it looks like it. It does indeed, from that picture of it opened and the fact the shafts are different lengths means it's likely thats a VLSD but anything is possible at this point.
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Post by Zed. on Dec 21, 2020 17:11:18 GMT
Personally a torsen is never something I've asipired to fitting as they are all old and overpriced +1 I would entertain the idea of a new clutch LSD in the 7" diff with a 4.3 (or higher ratio) if it was possible. plenty of higher ratios available from Mx5 & Honda's S2000 like 4.1, 3.9 & 3.6:1 if you wanted lower ratio then Kia Sportage (mid 90's - ~2004?) or Kia Retona (anyone seen one? )FRONT diffs have 4.4, 4.6 & 4.778:1 ratio gears BUT nothing else id usable from them - rear diffs are larger! and theres supposedly 4.9, 5.1 & 5.3:1 out in the wild spmewhere... potentially, the B200 / Bongo & possibly Ford Ranger front diff could supply ratio's BUT I've yet to trip over one at the right price to investigate...... I've a 4.778:1 built up but really want the 5.1:1 so if Santa is reading....... Rich. more fill re. diffs... next is info re. the Kia Sportagr /Retona front ratio transplant rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=7128^^ for the 7" later diff... www.miata.net/garage/vlsd.htmlhas some info re. ratio's for the 7" unit onto using rx7 components... fixjunk.com/solomiata/solomiata2/RX7LSD.pdfMazda plate lsd info.... www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=160047Now, this is the link I've spent most of the day hunting for....... www.ooparts-international.co.jp/index/car/listbybrand/mazdaspeed/lsd/index.htmlthis suggests that you Need 2 of output shaft(P/N: T005 27 270B)
google search finds forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=002397;p=0and a while ago I crossreferenced those output flanges and they were same as the 6" open-diff type but no answer as to shape..... still no closer to a definative answer to the i nfamous Square Flanges Rich.
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